ESO falling with cheaters?

Herr_Flocke

Tigertron wrote: »

You can look at the game code while it is running and watch packets

yes, and I am sure you did that extensively. But from techie to techie... there's things which cannot be done on the server, e.g. user input. Only thing that can be done server side is evaluating user input for plausibility.

And now there's the thing... if you would be paid for it, where would you try to manipulate the client to put out manufactured user input ? Hint,..no, not on OS event level, that's AHK and macroing and plain stupid...
I am sure you can figure out the solution for yourself.

So no, while server side computing and input checks prevent some forms of manipulation, it is in no way a means to prevent all forms of cheating.

Amottica

kargen27 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Lol @ anyone trying to play semantics with exploiting vs. cheating.

Both are against the ToS and could get an account banned.

One is taking advantage of a known flaw in the game. For example there was a chest that was respawning almost immediately for a while. Some players camped it and farmed instead of reporting the problem. This would be exploitation.

Cheating would be something like running a script that causes a chest to respawn instantly. Same result different method.

It isn't semantics. It is two separate issues and both are covered in the terms of service agreement. Exploiting a flaw is not the same as cheating. Actually a fairly distinct difference.

While I can see someone suggesting they are the same because the end result is essentially the same. However, there is a very real difference as you point out.

PigofSteel

kargen27 wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

Togal wrote: »

Everything is server side nowadays, you can't hop on cheat engine or any scripting software to impact the game. They are just better than you thats how the cycle works, If I lose usually its to a better player that has more experience. Youll be surprised how many people call veterans cheaters, its insane. Also using macros gives you a disadvantage since you can't react to different situations. Please stop calling people cheaters, they just really enjoy the game and put in more effort than others.

Emm you can still use all that...

you can.

It just doesn't work to give a player an advantage.

Sure...

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I'm gonna tell you right Now, that when I was on PC at one point and then saw people Flying around, yes Flying, or atleast hovering in the AIR, and then casting Multiple Ultimate's, like Meteor (from the Mages guild) I was done playing on PC and took the PS4 Transfer...

Addon's like Miat's is just plain cheating...

Herr_Flocke

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Addon's like Miat's is just plain cheating...

No they are not. All addons can do is use functionality that is provided through the API and is approved by ZOS. Every now and then ZOS decides that some functionality might interfere with intended gameplay, so they change the functionality the API provides. This was the case with the Miat addon. Some of the functions it provided were no longer possible after the API changes, while what still works is still legit. Therefore this addon was never a cheat and is no cheat now.

Cheating through the use of 3rd party software is a complete different ballgame than using exploits, glitches or API functionality. Please don't throw it all together. It doesn't really help the discussion.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

xeNNNNN wrote: »

There has been a problem with "cheating" for quite some time.

Originally there was Miats which basically told you when something nasty was coming your way before you would normally be able to react so you can avoid it with little difficulty. I am not sure if that addon has been fixed on the backend yet, on a glnce some of that functionality does seem to of been blocked (thankfully). I am not sure if its still in use by many people. There was a big chat a while back about the addon and whether it could be defined as cheating, I would say yes but thats just my opinion.

Right now?
Well the only cheaters I've noticed are the ones exploiting (a common and long standing issue in the game). Currently there is something to do with balorghs where you can get it permanently (I don't know how its done other than its a necromancer thing) I also know that it isn't just a visual bug just based on the damage dealt to the victim of it. What I do know is its ridiculous and people should be banned for using it.

The other is one that has been brought to my attention by friends regarding stealth attacks. Essentially the person never leaves stealth but manages to get off an elemental weapon/Crystal weapon hit + a light attack. On the death recap it will show around 20kish damage but the player on the receiving end will have more than 20k health so the finishing damage is missing. My guess is that this is a desync exploit allowing them to get off all their damage in a fraction of the second and it being that bad that even the death recap fails to register it all.

Exploiting is as much cheating as it is to use an ESP. It gains the individual an unfair advantage over all others that is not intended or is gained through a third party.

I will say that one I have seen a few times. I even took a few screen shots. I have close to 30K health, fall over dead in an instant, approx 20k damage on my recap. Chalked it up to desyncs, as it was MYM, but if it is a known exploit, I have some reporting to do.

kargen27

PigofSteel wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

Togal wrote: »

Everything is server side nowadays, you can't hop on cheat engine or any scripting software to impact the game. They are just better than you thats how the cycle works, If I lose usually its to a better player that has more experience. Youll be surprised how many people call veterans cheaters, its insane. Also using macros gives you a disadvantage since you can't react to different situations. Please stop calling people cheaters, they just really enjoy the game and put in more effort than others.

Emm you can still use all that...

you can.

It just doesn't work to give a player an advantage.

Sure...

Yeah I'm sure. Thanks for asking.

Merforum

Merforum wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

The real question is if cheating is so rampant then why do they only target the same 4 people on the forums and not the thousands of people that play daily?

Please tell me which ones? Because that's my only topic about it.
Maybe a very small percentage of players use the forum for communication? like in any other game forum. I might as well compare it with only the same people still want DM queue. Yea no make sens.
maybe for this there is no normal reporting system? (even ignoring the lack of responses to them)

and many many other factors.

If you have a problem with finding a new video, just use google "eso cheat" you will find many videos from 2019-21.

About 359,000 results (0.20 seconds)

Pushing everything into server dynsc problems? This game would be more unplayable if it had such server problems. but it is not

That is projection, beware the forum has a troll farm that insults anyone bringing up topics like this and defends this behavior or claims it doesn't exist. This is the first time I looked into it too. I actually don't care too much but these cheat engines can do some amazing things. Not too many people go around using the most extreme stuff but I have seen people totally disappear, not like in game cloak or potion, but just gone. And move very weirdly. And other stuff another poster described. Does it exist and is probably more than anyone will admit, YES. Does it affect my gameplay enough to care about it, NO or not that I know of.

OMG look at this tonight there is an unscheduled maintenance to address some widespread but non-existent exploits.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583851/exploit-hotfix-on-all-realms-august-17

Togal

its all l2p, man its insane how many people call experienced players cheaters. It boggles my mind everyday I see people call out hacks or cheats. A person with thousands of hours of nothing but pvp and perfecting their build is bound to win. Also playing multiple classes works because you understand their burst combos, its just as simple as that.

Magio_

Merforum wrote: »

OMG look at this tonight there is an unscheduled maintenance to address some widespread but non-existent exploits.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583851/exploit-hotfix-on-all-realms-august-17

Did ZOS ever state the exploit they're fixing has anything to do with Combat at all? lol

Merforum

Merforum wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

The real question is if cheating is so rampant then why do they only target the same 4 people on the forums and not the thousands of people that play daily?

Please tell me which ones? Because that's my only topic about it.
Maybe a very small percentage of players use the forum for communication? like in any other game forum. I might as well compare it with only the same people still want DM queue. Yea no make sens.
maybe for this there is no normal reporting system? (even ignoring the lack of responses to them)

and many many other factors.

If you have a problem with finding a new video, just use google "eso cheat" you will find many videos from 2019-21.

About 359,000 results (0.20 seconds)

Pushing everything into server dynsc problems? This game would be more unplayable if it had such server problems. but it is not

That is projection, beware the forum has a troll farm that insults anyone bringing up topics like this and defends this behavior or claims it doesn't exist. This is the first time I looked into it too. I actually don't care too much but these cheat engines can do some amazing things. Not too many people go around using the most extreme stuff but I have seen people totally disappear, not like in game cloak or potion, but just gone. And move very weirdly. And other stuff another poster described. Does it exist and is probably more than anyone will admit, YES. Does it affect my gameplay enough to care about it, NO or not that I know of.

OMG look at this tonight there is an unscheduled maintenance to address some widespread but non-existent exploits.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583851/exploit-hotfix-on-all-realms-august-17

Kind of like the undertaker exploit that all the 'expert' players were using until it got fixed. But it was really skill, the skill of finding out what is broken before everyone else does.

NylAR

Togal wrote: »

its all l2p, man its insane how many people call experienced players cheaters. It boggles my mind everyday I see people call out hacks or cheats. A person with thousands of hours of nothing but pvp and perfecting their build is bound to win. Also playing multiple classes works because you understand their burst combos, its just as simple as that.

It also helps you find exploits or unintended design that you can use to your advantage, eh? 😂

mocap

saw only one cheater in Cyro (PC-EU, CP). Dude who can one shot anyone with Crushing Weapon. Recap screen shows something like 12k damage and nothing else.

NylAR

tim99 wrote: »

yes, i've also noticed that from the OP.
some time ago, maybe years, there was that addon where people could see attacks evenn made from sneak.
Zos canceled that API, so that special functionality was not posible any more.

But recently it started again, way too much and too exactly to have it by chance. Im sure there is something, what people alarms, even if you snipe from sneak into their back...
It's not bad yet, just a few seems to know about it yet. Wait if we are back at the state, where it's so common, that everyone has to use it ^^

There are ways to set up scripts and macros using certain software which can automate your character's behavior to a certain extent with lightning speed through reading the API alerts created by/for add-ons.

Example: An addon sends a warning/alert Relentless proc has been cast on you from the API, a script or macro specifically written to detect this alert will then automatically trigger dodge on your character if applicable in-game and/or under other user-written conditions.

And yep, this can do pretty much everything you want. Pinpoint weaving? No problem easy as hell actually. Flawless sprint jumping ( Exploit btw)? Yeah easy af. Auto-interrupt and auto-breakfree? Hell yes.

And while technically these can seem as very small things, it does make a crapton of difference.

How do I know of these things? Let's say i know certain someone IRL who plays the game with these. Or rather had known, cause we actually got into a heavy argument over this.

ResidentContrarian

When you are winning and that one guy can't stand it and starts using skills from three different classes, ex: jabs, light, mages fury and tops it off with a leap -- all that produced from a single light attack you can't dodge, then you see him kill everyone including his teammates, then you know what's up.

But if not something obvious like that, you cannot be certain. The game isn't exactly 1:1 in what you see and reality unless you have extremely low ping and zero to no packet loss. I even tested positioning with my brother before, on the same connection, and it was off and not 1:1 in that situation.

Hallothiel

How do I know of these things? Let's say i know certain someone IRL who plays the game with these. Or rather had known, cause we actually got into a heavy argument over this.

But WHY? WHY use these cheats/exploits? Why not just play the game? Is their ego so fragile that they have to ‘win’ in just about anything, even a mmo that is not that competitive?

Sad.

NylAR

Hallothiel wrote: »

How do I know of these things? Let's say i know certain someone IRL who plays the game with these. Or rather had known, cause we actually got into a heavy argument over this.

But WHY? WHY use these cheats/exploits? Why not just play the game? Is their ego so fragile that they have to ‘win’ in just about anything, even a mmo that is not that competitive?

Sad.

Imho this is because of dopamine receptors getting their fix. Regardless of how he satisfies them it's too much to pass up the feeling of being usntoppable. And I think all of us humans have the potential to go this wrong once we get a taste of it. Some people just have stronger will and moral basis to resist it.

martinhpb16_ESO

I sometimes get whispers accusing me of cheating

I definitely do not cheat, so sometimes it is player perception and probably crappy servers.

Not saying it doesn't happen because I see some weird stuff going on sometimes

SeaGtGruff

Magio_ wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

OMG look at this tonight there is an unscheduled maintenance to address some widespread but non-existent exploits.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583851/exploit-hotfix-on-all-realms-august-17

Did ZOS ever state the exploit they're fixing has anything to do with Combat at all? lol

Do we know what the exploit was? I'm not asking how it was being done-- which is presumably getting fixed, anyway, whatever it was-- but rather what it did? Or is it verboten to know even that much?

SeaGtGruff

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I sometimes get whispers accusing me of cheating

I definitely do not cheat, so sometimes it is player perception and probably crappy servers.

Not saying it doesn't happen because I see some weird stuff going on sometimes

I've never been accused of cheating, but I was in a PvP fight in Cyrodiil once and some players in my alliance were going on about somebody being able to inflict damage with a 2-handed weapon while they were farther away than the players thought should be possible. It stuck in my mind because I use 2-handed weapon skills and am aware that it is indeed possible-- and perfectly legit-- to inflict damage when you're a bit further away than it appears should be possible. If you're at tgat distance from an enemy you won't be able to hit it with a normal light attack, medium attack, or heavy attack-- you'll get a message that the target is out of range-- but your 2-handed weapon skills will still light up in your ability bar such that you can fire them off. I'm not sure what the logic behind this is, but I like to think of it as being able to get a little bit further reach by giving your weapon a mighty swing with your arms as extended as possible while gripping just the end of the shaft or hilt. Anyone who uses 2-handed weapons will quickly become very good at instinctively knowing just how far away they can be from an enemy and still be able to hit them this way.

My point is, the players in my alliance were talking with each other as though they thought it must be some kind of cheat, but it was actually perfectly normal game behavior. Any 2-handed weapon users should know what I mean.

Luke_Flamesword

Yeah, I see on chat all the time people talking about cheating when they just deal with unbalanced tank builds, one-shoters or ball groups in Cyro. I remember one time on Cyro when some player was so certain that other player is cheating, because he was deadly and fast healing. Bunch of players tried to kill him and give up, but he just was good, skilled and of course using every unbalanced meta possible. I died maybe 10 times but at some point, I killed him, so definitely not cheater. However, it's still not conviced other player whining about cheating - some people just don't accept failures and fact that other can be so much better than they are.

Hegron

Alucardo wrote: »

They were on the ground taking zero damage - 100% health the entire time.

That's a known bug (Life Desync).

I think Zos can't fix it, because it's Zos.

Cozzy1991

Sounds like a PEBCAK issue!

Blobsky

I cannot even begin to count the amount of people that have called me a 'cheater' for killing them in PvP. I've played almost 700 days playtime since Beta and have only ever seen three different cheaters (2x infinite ulti, 1x meteors from the sky) during all of those days.

To be brutally honest, most people just refuse to accept that they made a mistake or lack some game understanding, and then instantly call the person who beat them a cheater. I'd bet good money that if you killed them rather than dying, they would call you a cheater as well. Yet neither are cheating. People just want to use excuses rather than learn to perform better.

mattaeus01b16_ESO

I cant dodge S*** in pvp. Cant hit anyone dodging either. *shrug*

biminirwb17_ESO

Strange thinks happen late at night in Cyrodiil, but hardly any of them involve cheating. Seen the going underground into a keep a few months ago. The jumping off a resource tower onto the flag has stopped.

Nowhere near as bad as it has been, but the unexplained happens.

Sephyr

Blobsky wrote: »

I cannot even begin to count the amount of people that have called me a 'cheater' for killing them in PvP. I've played almost 700 days playtime since Beta and have only ever seen three different cheaters (2x infinite ulti, 1x meteors from the sky) during all of those days.

To be brutally honest, most people just refuse to accept that they made a mistake or lack some game understanding, and then instantly call the person who beat them a cheater. I'd bet good money that if you killed them rather than dying, they would call you a cheater as well. Yet neither are cheating. People just want to use excuses rather than learn to perform better.

You're only a cheater because you didn't kill me and I feel unloved.

Also I miss that crystal+overload blast build you had. Thems were the best of days.

NagualV

Blobsky wrote: »

I cannot even begin to count the amount of people that have called me a 'cheater' for killing them in PvP. I've played almost 700 days playtime since Beta and have only ever seen three different cheaters (2x infinite ulti, 1x meteors from the sky) during all of those days.

To be brutally honest, most people just refuse to accept that they made a mistake or lack some game understanding, and then instantly call the person who beat them a cheater. I'd bet good money that if you killed them rather than dying, they would call you a cheater as well. Yet neither are cheating. People just want to use excuses rather than learn to perform better.

When you are playing at a high level, you have greater awareness, understanding, and skill. That is the nature of being high level. You are processing more information, faster. A person at a lower level, lacking greater awareness, understanding, and skill simply doesnt understand what is going on. Everything happens too fast for them.

Does this mean that exploits/cheating NEVER occurs? No.....however, since lower level players lack the higher level awareness, understanding, and skill required to discern high level skill from exploits/cheats, they accuse EVERYTHING they see/beats them as cheating/exploiting. This makes them lose all credibility in their arguments(even if by chance they're correct/a broken clock is still right twice a day), and that's why higher levels in these types of threads comment things such as 'git gud' out of frustration.

See you in NW........

Fazuszek

stybbe17b16_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure there is an addon for attack notifications that alarm you on incoming attacks. Probably why they can dodge from behind.

Like this one looks like it does it for shield charge
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1545-MiatsPVPAlertsBattlegroundsEdition.html

And breaking stealth happens all the time. The combat is a spam fiesta and if you spam the correct skill you will always break it like gap closer or some aoe ability.

Nice addon. Do u want to tell me more how skill maters in pvp?

Fazuszek

Chelo wrote: »

This seen like another l2p thread... Also if you guys don't like add-ons, go play on console where everyone have the same UI, same hardware and basically same performance.

We dont have to. We all know that addons and hardware give BIG advantage over other players.